New Rockland Coalition Blasts Gun Map, Seeks Change

Bipartisan group disavows newspaper's map, calls for new gun initiatives.

Corrections officers at Rockland County jails are facing a problem entirely new to them, sheriff Louis Falco said Friday morning.

Inmates have been approaching the workers for the past two weeks and reciting the officers' home addresses.

Falco said the issue stems from a map published in December by a local newspaper that charts all legally licensed pistol permit holders in Rockland and Westchester counties. The map—created by The Journal News and hosted on LoHud.com—allows viewers to see the names and addresses of all residents who are allowed to own concealable firearms.

Falco was flanked by a coalition of bipartisan Rockland politicos at 11 New Hempstead Rd. in New City who find common ground in assailing the map—and the periodical that published it. A group of local police chiefs and leaders from the Democrat, Republican, Independence, Conservative and Working Families parties all disavowed the map.

"This is an issue of common sense," said legislator Frank Sparaco (R). "The Journal News' sensational actions have placed residents at risk." Sparaco also called on the periodical's editors to remove the map from their website.

Paul Piperato, Rockland County's clerk, said lawmakers are pushing for legislation in Albany that would make future attempts to publish gun data difficult, or impossible. Piperato spoke of a nascent bill that would make pistol owner data confidential, and searchable only by law enforcement.

A portion of the press conference also touched on gun safety—while condemnation of the map was unanimous, politicos called for a ban on assault weapons, as well. Legislator Ilan Schoenberger (D) also proposed a program that would distribute free cable locks to all legal gun owners in the county.

"Cable locks are better than trigger locks," Schoenberger said. "They work not just on handguns, but on rifles and shotguns, too."

Falco said the locks would be distributed at no cost to the taxpayer—the county has a surplus of 1,600. There would be a limit of four per household, he added.

In Putnam County, lawmakers have adopted a similar sentiment, and are declining to release the requested firearm information to the newspaper—a refusal that is illegal, as the information is public.

Friday morning's press conference included moments of action, too, when legislator Aron Wieder (D) officially filed for a pistol permit.

"I will do anything to keep my family safe," he said.


The Journal News has fielded many calls, emails and comments since the report's publication. Go here to read the FAQ they published in response.

White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:21 AM
Past experience with gun control leaders such as Annette "Flirty" Stevens (Illinois Million Mom March president caught with drugs and a de-serialized handgun), Sheila Eccleston (Mothers Against Violence, imprisoned for possessing a sawed-off shotgun), James Kelly (Seattle Urban League anti-gunner caught brandishing a handgun during an argument), Bart Stupak (champion of mandatory federal trigger locks whose son later committed suicide with dad's unlocked gun), and Barbara Graham (DC Million Mom March activist convicted of a revenge shooting of an innocent person who HADN'T killed her son) suggests that frustrated gun control activists tend to go out with a bang rather than a whimper. The moral is, if you ever happen to come across Dennis Henigan, any anti for that matter of this world take cover. You don't want to be at Ground Zero when they go postal and its not a matter of if, its a matter of when!” The blue social model is indeed at issue here. The blue model absolves the individual of moral reponsibility and invests it in the group. This frees the individual from moral constraints. It’s how socialists of all types get normal people to do inhuman things. The blue social model creates a form of collective sociopatholgy. That is why sociopaths are attracted to socialist mass movements. A UCLA study has shown, many politicians and CEO’s share the same exact psych profile as that of convicted serial killers and sociopaths. No joke, look it up.
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:25 AM
Yeah, then 76 mil other gun owners are all beholden to the NRA LOL, LOL, LOL and do what their ordered to because............................................................? Your right, we should hold people and government accountable though. Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first. The government acknowledges in USDOJ National Gang Threat Assessment 2011, see pg 14, chart #8 for that massive number of violent crimes committed in the US each year committed by gang members. http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/2011-national-gang-threat-assessment For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986). Hence add in the career criminals. CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:25 AM
Shall we review police studies in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident. www.popcenter.org/problems/drive_by_shooting/PDFs/Block_and_Block_1993.pdf, www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/2007_firearms_discharge_report.pdf, www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_firearms_report_102207.pdf Yeah, review of all the govt. data above shows over 92% of all killings by illegal use of a firearm are committed by career criminals, gang members, and suiciders. A sane person would normally address the largest problem first don’t you agree? Lets continue this review by acknowledging how many of the existing gun control laws actually apply to the bad guys. http://supreme.justia.com/us/390/85/ Haynes vs. U.S. 390 U.S. 85 1968 where the US Supreme Court ruled 8-1 in favor of Haynes that any law requiring a felon to self incriminate themselves and violate their 5th amendment rights was not enforceable as a charge for prosecution. Hence criminals don't have to follow 85% of the existing 22,417 gun control laws that do so, e.g. your stolen weapons, registrations, etc.... Would you care to suggest that the 5th amendment be repealed, no, don’t think you would! cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:26 AM
Then we should review how well those laws are enforced anyway. Like the BATF for refusing to prosecute more than 1% of the 1.83 mil felons, others, and crazies rejected by the background check since 1994. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/html/bcft/2008/bcft08st.pdf USDOJ Background Check & Firearm Transfer report 2008 Like the BATF for refusing to catch ANY of those lying on their 4473 forms (Cho, Loughner & Holmes were crazy, they lied) or using fake identifications. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/03/21/national/main280557.shtml General Accounting Office study Like the BATF for refusing to do anything about the 95% of felons who don’t even attempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=940 DOJ Firearms use by Offenders Nov 2001 Like the BATF for refusing to allow civilians access to use the NICS background check for private sales as only licensed dealers are allowed. Lets not forget that our politicians play a significant role in enabling the crazies to go free. As a result of VA Tech, Pub. L. 110-180 NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 was enacted. http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/PUBLAW/HTML/PUBLAW/0-0-0-38245.html cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:27 AM
The real question and failure, is what have the states actually funded or resourced to do so? http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics Going to the actual website, we see as of July 2012, there are only 1.7 mil records of people who by due process have lost their 2A rights for being severely mentally ill. Yet mental health experts agree that on avg. over 23.15 mil US adults (50% of current 2.7 mil prisoners) are severely mentally ill. So is that the 80 mil law abiding gun owners fault, or the politicians, sucker question I know! Then all those failures of people in position of authority, who repeatedly fail to do something about it. Like the psychiatrist for Cho (VA Tech killer) who failed to notify authorities about Cho before his shooting rampage. You should hold VA Tech responsible for failing to implement appropriate safety measures after they disarmed their students. Review the timeline of the VA Tech shooting and explain again why more laws should be implemented when so many failures occurred that were NOT the law abiding gun owners responsibility! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre_timeline cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:28 AM
You should hold the sheriff in AZ responsible for failing to press charges against Loughner 4 to 5 times prior to the Gifford’s shooting as we see death threats are not a felony in AZ when your parents are politically connected like Loughners. Gifford’s actually ignored death threats and had no security, how foolish. The military at least did a little of what antis refuse to do, hold those responsible for failure accountable. They convened a military tribunal and found those 9 Army officers guilty of dereliction of duty for failing to follow military procedures and protocols in handling and processing obvious mentally ill people in their ranks. The guilty finding has ended any hope of advancement essentially ending those 9 Officers careers. http://www.wane.com/dpps/military/Army-reprimands-9-officers-in-Fort-Hood-shooting_3745084 Lets not forget the heroes in Aurora CO. You know, the psychiatrist and the Risk Review Board at Colorado University. They had Holmes under review and when he dropped out of school, they just like irresponsible children, dropped the issue and notified no one, even when they had acknowledged that he was a risk. Thereby enabling Holmes to continue and engage in his killing spree. Lest we not acknowledge the Cinemark theatres who disarm their patrons and do nothing to protect those they disarm should be held accountable as well. Same thing with Columbine, such a pathetic trend. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:29 AM
Then of course the anti’s who consistently wish to blame inanimate objects for the rampage, yet based on government facts, the previous semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil, didn’t reduce violent crime in any fashion. Shall we look at the FBI report from several years ago? Violent Encounters – A study of Felonious Assaults on our nations law enforcement officers USDOJ, FBI, National Institute of Justice August 2006 http://www.scribd.com/doc/49014330/Violent-Encounters-A-Study-of-Felonious-Assaults-on-Our-Nation-s-Law-Enforcement-Officers-by-DOJ You should read the National Sciences Foundation report from 2004 on gun control laws, a study that was formed by the anti gun Clinton Administration so just like the Ludgwig & Cooke study noted below, doesn't prove any causality theory, much less any effect of gun control laws on violent crime. An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban: Impacts on Gun Markets and Gun Violence, 1994-2003, National Institute of Justice, June 2004 http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf E.G. Government admits the ban didnt do didley squat Firearm Violence, a critical Review" 2004 http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=R2 cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:31 AM
Even more hilarious is the fact the antis try to manufacture a mountain out of a molehill. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls 2010 FBI UCR database shows 1.25 mil violent crimes reported (4 mil not reported USDOJ National Victimization report), 322,691 involved a firearm, 14,748 murders, 358 by illegal use of any type of rifle, 162 by use of a semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil. (firearms were used in 67.5 percent of the Nation’s murders 14,748 = 9,955, 41.4 percent of 367,832 robberies =152,282, and 20.6 percent of aggravated assaults 778,901 =160,453.) All while in 2010 FBI UCR, we see deaths committed by illegal use of hands, fists, feet, blunt objects and knives accounted over 3,259 deaths, each by themselves accounting for far more deaths than the anti’s mythical boogeyman, the semi-auto rifle banned because they look evil. The anti’s really should get going on registering and banning hands, fist, feet, all type of blunt objects and all knives as clearly they are a more serious threat in the real world. Oh dont forget to make clenching ones fist and flipping the bird illegal also as that would be brandishing a lethal weapon ya know! cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:32 AM
Shall we review how magazine capacity doesn’t affect didley, yeah, lets. It will be looked at as a time study, we who set manufacturing processes up do lots of these studies to accurately predict labor , material usages, predictions and savings. Response times by the police range from 2 minutes at Aurora was due to them being lucky enough to be near, most times 10 to 12 minutes from first call. Adam Lanza tried to open a locked door, couldn’t, so he shot the glass out to gain entry upon which time the principal and another person came from the office and confronted Lanza who then killed them both. Total elapsed time, approx 1 minute. Then Lanza walked down the hallway to the bathroom 15 seconds and then the 1st kinder-garden classroom about 150 ft away, max time to do so, 25 seconds, where he killed most of the victims. Lanza then walked across the hall 25 ft away, max time 15 seconds. Whereupon he killed the remaining victims. Professional shooter can change a magazine in 1.4 seconds, someone familiar with the weapon, which Adam was, can do so in 3.0 seconds. Since we know that he fired approx 79 rounds, using 30 round magazines, that is 3 magazine changes x 3.0 seconds = 9 seconds. Cyclic rate for the semi-auto rifle/pistol is 60 rounds per minute so 1 shot for every pull of the trigger per second = 79 seconds. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:34 AM
Total times Office killing 1min=60secs Hallway walk to bathroom =15 seconds Hallway walk to 1st room = 25 seconds Hallway walk to 2nd room = 15 seconds Shootings =79 seconds Reloads = 9 seconds 203 seconds total = 3.383 minutes Now if Lanza had been limited to 10 round magazines as antis claim would limit the ease of killing, at 3 seconds reloads, needs 8 magazines = 7 reloads x 3 seconds = 21 seconds. That is an additional 12 seconds to the total = 3.583 minutes total. Since the time from the first shooting to the time the police entered the building and approached the shooter was right at 12 minutes whereupon he shot himself, explain again how the 10 round magazines would have made a difference when there was 8.417 minutes of spare time for the shooter to screw up and take his time? Reality is, limiting a shooter to 10 round magazines doesn’t prevent anything and you cant prove different! Geez, didn’t the government just create a right to health care a year ago, yeah, they are forcing everyone into a high-risk situation with no choice. Lets compare the safety of going to a doctor vs being around a CPL licensee since they are both rights. BATF Max 8 million CPL's US, approximately 186 million age 21 or older or 4.3% of the people licensed for CPL. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:36 AM
Possible deaths from CPL holders in 3 year time span from Violence Policy Center report 2009, 137 or 45 per year equals .00000562 per concealed license holder. You can also review Florida's data on CCW at http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html it says the same thing. JAMA http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/286/4/415 700,000 doctors in US kill 44,000 to 98,000 by medical malpractice every year or .065 to.14 per physician. Physician is .065 or .14 /.00000562 = 12,000 to 25,000 times more likely to harm you than a CPL holder. So where is the risk from concealed carry holders and why aren't the antis crying to ban doctors? Of course we see how in dozens of court rulings that the police are by law, not legally liable to protect the individual civilian. Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection) Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody) Of course we see how police each year, fail to solve more than 8.06% of all violent crimes committed each year. Police response times at best are 4 minutes, 15-20 minutes on average. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:39 AM
FBI UCR 2008 1.38 mil VCR (Violent Crime Reported) 45.1% solved to prosecution, 80% success rate. http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/clearances/index.htm The British and Canadian govt. does an identical study to the Victimization reports, says the same thing! http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/bcs1011tech1?view=Binary

 http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010002/article/11340-eng.htm http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2224 But oh wait, we have to remember the 70% of violent crimes the government recognizes that were not reported USDOJ National Victimization report 2008. http://www.uscourts.gov/uscourts/Statistics/FederalJudicialCaseloadStatistics/2008/tables/D04Mar08.pdf http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv08.pdf So based on that (1.38 mil x 45.1%) x 80%) / 1.38 mil + 4.8 mil = 8.06% of the violent crimes committed are solved each year. Hey lets review actual self defense incidents. Funny how review of the following websites that collate the POLICE INCIDENTS show on avg. 300 per month. Since those ar epolice incidents any claim of bias and the village knows where to find its lost idiot. http://kc3.com/self_defense/Self_Defense.htm http://thearmedcitizen.com/wp/category/armed http://gunowners.org/self-defense-corner.htm http://keepandbeararms.com/ http://gunssavelives.net cont.
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:42 AM
Just horrible how those people saved themselves without the governments permission eh. Oh you want more data, hey lets review the following. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm FBI UCR Database You know, the government database showing in 2008 that 1.38 mil violent crimes were reported and that of those 381,000 involved a firearm, 15% of the incidents were shots fired. Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November 2001 http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pb.... http://www.data.gov/details/1526 USDOJ National Victimization Report 2008 You know, the government agency sub annual report showing in 2008 alone that 70% of all violent crimes committed were not reported. Oh wait, what’s this, annual firearm discharge reports that show the police only hit their targets 15% of the time, such a common trend. http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles/Sho... http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni... http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/p... http://www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_firearms... Uh just an fyi there were approximately 12,252 murders and 70,000 injuries by firearms in 2008. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:42 AM
So using the standard shooting percentages, and hit percentages provided by all that government data these quacks cant refute, lets calculate using just a small portion of the anti's own calculations, how much money self defense has saved the US per year, and we will only concentrate on the law abiding to start with. Even though the anti’s wont admit that even felons, who are citizens, have the right to defend themselves. Self Defense saves lives FBI UCR 2010 278 documented justifiable homicides and since there are oh 2.5 people per household per US Census, almost 6 injuries per death we will calculate from that point. 278 incidents + (6 x 278 = injured) = 15% of shots hit target /15 = 1% x 100 = # of shots fired = 12,973 incidents shots fired by law abiding citizens. 12,973/15 = 1% x 100 = total number of self defense incidents just of people not involved in a criminal activity. =86,488 incidents x 2.5 people per household = 216,222 people defending themselves. cont
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 12:45 AM
Now we know that of 381,000 violent crimes in 2008, there were 12,252 murders, and 70,000 injuries, but to be fair since suicide is 90% fatal, will remove the 1,854 injuries caused by suicides, and assuming the same rate of injuries due to accidental firearms discharges of 3,660 just to be fair 64,486 injuries total. So 80,396 deaths and injuries in 2008 out of 381,000 incidents = 1.5% deaths 17.9% injuries. 216,222 x .015 = # of deaths saved 3,243 216,222 x .179 = # of injuries prevented 38,704 So any sane person calim this isnt a positive effect of civilians owning firearms for self defense? Even more frustrating for the antis is how many of those incidents a AWB banned weapon was used in self defense. So sad for the antis they only have lies to promote their scam that gun control of the law abiding reduces violence by the felons & crazies, when it never does, nor ever will.
George Powers January 06, 2013 at 02:39 AM
Right . Or Battered women . Their abusers now have their addresses.
George Powers January 06, 2013 at 02:45 AM
Battered women trying to protect themselves?
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 06:48 AM
Based on irrefutable history, anti gun extremists have never offered concessions or compromise. They by their actions and statements only wish to take based on their unsubstantiated and illogical fears of their mythical boogeyman, the law abiding gun owner in their promotion that gun control reduces violence, when it never does.

 See were the antis really serious about coming to table and meeting the pro gun side halfway, they must be willing to give something up in return, see that is how compromise occurs. So what should be the suggestion, ah, I have it. The antis at various times have tried to shame the gun owners into submission by posting who has permits and licenses, claiming if they have nothing to hide why should they worry. So using that logic, we will propose the anti gun side do likewise since they have nothing to hide, and essentially wish to opt out of exercising their 2A right as well as opt out of defending themselves or their loved ones. We suggest the anti gun people be willing to wear a symbol to identify their gun free status, uh like the STAR OF DAVID. Such an appropriate mark for disarmed victims. We pro gun people will wear the Stars & Stripes representing our belief and support of the US Constitution and our BOR.
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 06:51 AM
About 45 per yr illegally, doctors over 98,000 per yr!
White Feather January 06, 2013 at 07:05 AM
LOL, Max Brantly, Little Rock Arkansas, a news editor did the same thing back in 2008, posted the cpl licensee's names and such, he claimed he didnt have a problem with it, until 2 days later, one pissed off gun owner put a billboard up in the seedy part of town, with Max's personal information from the web, as a gun free home, hence public and legal. In an interview the next day, Max blustered that he had the right to do what he did and that such an act by those he had targeted for intimidation, was in turn intimidation on he, and that wasnt right, LOL! Sad, but the a-holes that made the rules need to be reminded they arent God. Or would you prefer a physcial attack instead of simple retribution by the use of written words, you choose which Issy!
Peter Clerkin January 06, 2013 at 02:52 PM
What we really know is he does not own a LEGAL handgun. Like so many that spew the anti gun message got to wonder if the is not the ultimate joke and actually owns a gun. See below copied from White Feathers prior post; Past experience with gun control leaders such as Annette "Flirty" Stevens (Illinois Million Mom March president caught with drugs and a de-serialized handgun), Sheila Eccleston (Mothers Against Violence, imprisoned for possessing a sawed-off shotgun), James Kelly (Seattle Urban League anti-gunner caught brandishing a handgun during an argument), Bart Stupak (champion of mandatory federal trigger locks whose son later committed suicide with dad's unlocked gun), and Barbara Graham (DC Million Mom March activist convicted of a revenge shooting of an innocent person who HADN'T killed her son) suggests that frustrated gun control activists tend to go out with a bang rather than a whimper.
amerpatriot January 06, 2013 at 04:25 PM
White Feather - outstanding research - essential information that is absolutely disregarded by the misdirected left. Facts are facts. How can any reasonable, intelligent person deny facts. It is difficult to not lose faith in people who refuse to educate themselves with facts. I can only conclude that the anti-gun lunatics are not so much anti-violence as much as they are anti-intelligence. Good work.
Kirsten Berger January 06, 2013 at 06:06 PM
Has anyone recently read the 2nd Amendment through carefully? Here it is "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Note these two words: "WELL REGULATED"
Mike January 06, 2013 at 06:43 PM
And you do know that in the Heller cast, the SCOTUS found that the phrase “well regulated Militia” referred not to formally organized state or federal militias, but to the pool of “able-bodied men” who were available for conscription.The Court also noted that there was a historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons” that would not be affected by its decision. The Court, however, declined to establish the standard by which future gun regulations would be evaluated which is where we are at today. At this point, we can say that SCOTUS has ruled in favor of individual rights to self defense through ownership of handguns. It is less clear what rights citizens would have to ownership of automatic weapons.
Mr. Fred January 07, 2013 at 03:36 AM
So the LIBS think it is OK to kill a baby, but you cannot own a gun?
Mr. Fred January 07, 2013 at 03:36 AM
EDITOR: Cynthia Lambert Miss Royle’s married name is Lambert. She lives in White Plains and here is her Facebook page complete with pictures of her and her kids. Hello Sanctimony. http://www.facebook.com/CynDeeRoyle Cynthia R Lambert 17 Mcbride Ave White Plains, NY 10603 (914) 948-9388 Work: 914-694-5001 croyle@lohud.com https://twitter.com/croyle1 https://www.facebook.com/cyndee.royle.7 https://www.facebook.com/CynDeeRoyle Drives a red convertible:http://s13.postimage.org/k8ffnxuo7/cyndee_royle_aka_cynthia_lambert_red_convertible.jpg Family photo: http://s7.postimage.org/dkqtytvyj/cyndee_royle_aka_cynthia_lambert_fb_alt_private.jpg Publisher, Janet Hasson, 3 Gate House Lane, Mamaroneck NY, 10543 (914) 694-5204 Reporter, Dwight R. Worley, 23006 139 Ave Springfield Gardens, NY 11413 (718) 527-0832 The “Visual Editor” responsible for the map itself is: Robert F. Rodriguez (w) Stephanie Azzarone Home (212) 222-4566 420 Riverside Dr, Apt 7A New York, NY 10025-7748 Publisher: Janet Hasson (@janhasson on twitter) 3 Gate House Rd, Mamaroneck, NY 10534 GANNET CEO: Gracia C Martore 728 Springvale Rd Great Falls, VA 22066 (703) 759-5954 H/T Atlantic Wire Christopher Foutain
White Feather January 08, 2013 at 04:39 PM
The second amendment as RATIFIED by the state’s. “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Maybe you can explain how for the entire history of English language, that the independent clause, a complete sentence capable of conveying a clear meaning, and must first exist for a dependent clause to have meaning, has always set the meaning of the complex sentence. (“the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”) Yet some now infer the dependent clause, an incomplete sentence, incapable of conveying a clear meaning (A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State) is now the determinator of the complex sentence meaning and history and English scholars have all been wrong throughout the history of written English. Have at it, but warn us when Hades will be freezing over for you actually having data to support your claim. http://www.writingcentre.uottawa.ca/hypergrammar/sntstrct.html Lets see, have you removed the 30 plus references from the congressional writings 1774-1789 & the federalist papers showing well regulated as to meaning well trained in the arts of war? Much less all those dictionaries that say the same thing? No, you haven’t. Reference Karpeles Museum, CA. http://www.rain.org/%7Ekarpeles/ cont
White Feather January 08, 2013 at 04:41 PM
Maybe you removed that original draft of what became the second amendment. You know, the one that was clearly written as a collective right, but then was changed to what exists today. original proposed draft 
the right to keep and bear arms 
of the 
(17 TH of 20 amendments) on display at the Karpeles Manuscript Library 
Santa Ana, California "That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated Militia composed of the body of the people trained to arms is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free State. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power." Why did our founding fathers change the amendment draft if it was what they wanted? Oh that’s right, actions do speak louder than words. Ref Karpeles Museum, CA again. http://www.wemett.net/2nd_amendment_(original_draft).html Then of course, here is the logic failure the anti’s always have. They always fail to prove, that the militia existed before the armed individual. cont
White Feather January 08, 2013 at 04:41 PM
The anti’s always fail to prove that a collective right can exist without the individual right first existing as how does a collective begin, oh that’s right, pre-existing individuals come together to form said collective, DOOOHH! Funny how all that was before the 2008 rulings eh? Funny how in the 2008 Heller ruling all 9 justices agreed that bearing arms was an individual right. That 5-4 vote was on the constitutionality of the Washington D.C. gun ban, read it, you will see! http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf http://www.gurapossessky.com/news/parker/pleadings.html (links to Amicus Briefs for Heller) 10 USC § 311 - Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. cont
White Feather January 08, 2013 at 04:44 PM
Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment . We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997) , and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001) , the Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding. Now, when you are God, you can demand that the BOR is not a control on government powers, when it always has been! You do realize since the govt. is the entity responsible for calling up the unorganized militia to train, that is just another example of the govt. failing to do their job, such a consistent trend! Oh yeah, also remember, the only version of the 2A ratified by the states, is the one comma version, hence any discussion about sentence structure etc of the 3 comma version, is irrelevant, accept that or not, your beliefs will never change that!


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