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Nyack Merchant, Lawmakers Feud Over Parking

Marianne Olive calls new parking timetable 'prejudiced' against late-night businesses

Marianne Olive says may be aiding daytime businesses, but evening and late-night merchants are suffering.

"My business dropped off by 30 percent since the parking went into effect," said Olive, who owns the bar and two other shops, and .

Olive spoke to village lawmakers late last week, blasting the new policy in a back-and-forth that also touched on late-night noise, miffed neighbors and outdoor dining hours.

"You're cutting our legs off," Olive continued. "None of you [trustees] are in business in Nyack… you don’t know how this parking affects peoples' livelihood."

Nyack's new parking policy switched paid times to 11 a.m. to 6 p.m., and 11 p.m. to 6 a.m.

Jen Laird-White, Nyack's mayor, implemented the change—and said Olive's qualms are unfounded.

"We're asking late-night patrons to feed the meters like every other business' patrons," she said. "It does not seem unreasonable."

The debate soon shifted to loud nights. Trustee Louise Parker noted late-night customers often keep residents up at night.

"I live in Nyack Plaza, and I've heard it," she said, referring to the shouting and music that comes from weekend revelers. "I had to get out of bed to see where the noise was coming from."

Olive suggested her and other merchants with late hours team up to create a restaurant association that works to keep the streets cleaner and quieter. Behind Olive at the legislative session were employees from and .

"It's a few people causing trouble, not a huge amount," Olive said. "We'll [punish] the people that are doing damage."

But Laird-White said the idea of a restaurant association is an old one that never got wind in its sails. As a result, Laird-White said, the new parking policy was implemented.

The village is beginning a new approach to sentencing revelers caught breaking windows or urinating publically, too—offenders will have to carry out community service cleaning up downtown streets.

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Alan D. May 29, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Presumably, patrons after 11pm are coming to Nyack's bars to drink, not to have dinner. If this is the case, they will probably be taking taxis and not be concerned about new parking laws. If the bar owners are suggesting that they make money from patrons who come to their establishment to drink and drive, then they are opening themselves up to a very large lawsuit.
Regarding noise, these bars do not want to sound proof their establishment and keep the sound inside like they are required to do in NYC. As a result, the bars blast club music into the street as if they owned Main Street It's not fair to the residents who live here, or landlords who lose their residents here. The bars should help defer the cost of extra police staff, police SUVs and horse mounted police officers during late night hours, not just Nyack taxpayers footing the bill for the drunken mayhem. I support Mayor White's initiatives and hope the bar owners recognize that they do not own this village. Bar owners, please abide by the laws and conduct your businesses respectfully. There are many residents and shop owners who reside in this wonderful village and don't want to be driven out of town because of your late-night antics.
worriedaboutnyack May 29, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Very well said. There's one item in Barry K's statement that I have not seen before in this controversy. And that is the VERY true point that the bars/restaurants are all open between 6 pm and 11 pm when the free parking time exists.
And why SHOULD the late-night crowd be free from having to pay the meters? Suppose...just suppose that all businesses in Nyack were open ONLY from 6 pm until 3 am (like the bars are open until 3am)...and we were still in the old meter days of free parking during that overnight time period. How long do you think that the free overnight parking would exist? Don't you think the Nyack Village Board would make the metered hours during that time to create revenue? Of course !!! It only makes sense to do so. So let the fairness begin.
JC Brotherhood May 29, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Im beginning to like JLW more and more. I reserve judgement on the effkcacy of the new parking rules. I dont park downtown I walk downtown. It is my sincere hope Nyack will rediscover ifs own walkability and work towards maintaining passable access on its sidewalks. Wbile i see some compliance with the updated cace permit rules it still needs work. I think the next step is to extend the overnight parking ban from 3 to 6 am to allow the village to clean the streets.
Walt May 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm
3-4 AM is valuable drinking time.
Scotty May 29, 2012 at 01:01 pm
I still say do away with all parking fees and meters. Be the trend setter....allow free parking like the mall does. That is the only way to compete with them. I know its hard to fathom but think outside of the box...go for it...word will spread and people will come in droves...worth a try... to our town leaders....figure another way to make money. Cut where you have to....but try it. You'd be real surprised.
John Patrick Schutz May 29, 2012 at 03:05 pm
Though parking is indeed an important issue in the vitality or lack thereof of our downtown, it is only one ingredient in a "cocktail" of issues that is leaving us with an increasingly barren retail and restaurant sector while adding more bars, pubs and lounges. At the moment, the businesses capable of paying the high rents in the ground floor spaces in Nyack's business districts are those that serve alcohol. As a realtor, I've shown several of the empty storefronts and have listings both commercial and residential in downtown... and I've had interested business owners with successful boutiques or shops in the city balk at the high per-square-foot rental prices in Nyack's storefronts. They've shown me rent rates in Chelsea and Greenwich Village less than ours, and begin to look elsewhere for stores outside the city as Nyack's rents would make it impossible to turn a profit. That means more empty storefronts or more stores turned into bars and pubs. Of the shops that do give it a try, many appear to be without solid business plans from the start and have a very narrow or specialized focus and can't pay the bills. Even the shops and businesses that DO survive utilize some anti-survival tactics on themselves - why would any boutique or speciatly shop in Nyack need to be open prior to 11AM and why close prior to people getting home from work. Our issues are linked, but they are not just parking - I applaud Mayor White for letting the bars patrons help pay for their own mess.
Stewie May 29, 2012 at 03:23 pm
Can you pay at 9PM for time after 11PM??
Richard Kavesh May 29, 2012 at 03:37 pm
No restaurant/bar owner is going to open their books. The most objective way to measure whether this plan is a success or a failure is simple: did or didn't this plan produce more or fewer open parking spaces between the hours of 6 and 9 P.M? But since no one took a survey beforehand, there is no way to make a comparison, so the VB will just declare victory. But since they're getting so much grief from the bar crowd, they'll abandon the 11:00 P.M. to 6:00 A.M. parking and just roll the enforcement hours back to 6:00 P.M. Free parking = no parking.
JC Brotherhood May 29, 2012 at 06:06 pm
Want free parking? Havs the Chamber or Olives restaurant association lease the parking from the village like thd PA does and thdy can give away all the free parking they want. Think parking at the mall is free? Think again. Its paid for by every pair of shoes, piece of clothing, ovsrpriced movie ticket or meal you have there. Thank you Mr Shultze for stating so clearly what many of us have maintained for so long. Its not all about parking. Its about access and in Nyack its pay to play.
Richard Kavesh May 29, 2012 at 06:50 pm
Yes
Richard Kavesh May 29, 2012 at 06:58 pm
The mall doesn't provide free parking. The price for parking there is built into everything you buy there. That's one reason prices there are so high. You don't feed quarters or get tickets, but you sure do pay for it.
And the village uses its profits from parking to stabilize and spread around the weight of village revenues. Without the $700,000 or so in profits from parking, village taxes would go up by more than 20%; 1% = about $31K.
Richard Kavesh May 29, 2012 at 07:29 pm
J.C., you have a great idea. If downtown merchants want free parking 24/7, all they have to do is pool their resources, write the village a check for $500,000 or so, and then charge (or not charge) whatever they want. I suspect they'll learn all about the high cost of free parking real soon.
John Gromada May 29, 2012 at 11:41 pm
finally : truth. These rents for retail storefronts are unsustainable. We have a bubble that has been created in large part by the bars. The real estate run-up has been burst seemingly everywhere but in commercial rents.
Randy May 30, 2012 at 02:55 am
I don't see how paying 75 cents an hour is going to prevent someone from coming to Nyack to buy drinks for $5 - $10 or more a piece. It is only fair that those who cost the taxpaying residents of the village substantial sums for police overtime, cleaning of streets and sidewalks and repairs to storefront windows and other vandalism should make a very small contribution for their short stay in Nyack. There is still free parking to be had if they choose to walk a few blocks.
Also, more enforcement of drinking outside of the "sidewalk cafe" area is needed. Often, as I walk past a bar there are patrons standing in my way who don't really want to move smoking and drinking their beer. This has happened on the weekend in the early evening. It is really time to take back Nyack for the residents and business owners who want to sell stuff we need. Let the bars, the inconsiderate ones, go elsewhere.
Randy May 30, 2012 at 03:02 am
John and JP are correct. Retail businesses have a difficult time surviving in Nyack with the high rents. These rents are inflated by the value the space has when turned into a bar. Solving this problem will require limiting the number of bars in Nyack and, further, applying other restrictions for new bars such as the square footage and the actual length of the bar to limit the amount of patrons who will converge on the place. It is one thing to have a restaurant that also serves alcohol but quite another to have a bar that serves some food to meet that requirement of the state. Until some changes are made to limit new bars, retail space in Nyack will continue to be unaffordable for most.
elizabeth May 30, 2012 at 03:42 am
Thank you, Jen! You have guts! It takes a lot of integrity to take a controversial stand! You 're representing your constituents, the residents of this village, and I applaud you!
MRMET May 30, 2012 at 09:52 am
I thought all the noise and chaos coming from the bars was bad enough. I reside in the downtown noise zone. There is a new problem now though. The dpw guys run down main st 5 am with LEAFBLOWERS ON WEEKENDS & HOLIDAYS. DID I SAY 5am!? The nyack noise ordance states no leafblowers before 9am on saturday& holidays ? Apparently the ordance means nothing to them .
mcccmar May 30, 2012 at 12:18 pm
the entire parking situation in Nyack has gotten OUT of hand - those extended sidewalks are a DISASTER - there was little enough parking in Nyack and they absorb sorely needed spaces.Having lived in Nyack basically for 63 years I can see that some of the changes are NOT for the best.
tony chestnut May 30, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Yes mcccmar, the sidewalks stink, again. Not only do they seem to leave less parking spaces but there also seems to be poor visability for pedestrians trying to cross streets. This is not helped by restaurants seating patrons too deep onto the sidewalks so that we are forced to walk into the street. I have seen many people trip over the now fixed flower beds and I still see people falling. There also appears to be drainage problems with water building in puddles trapped against the curb. Clearly this was not well thought out. I was told this was a case of getting funds that we had to use or lose. I say we should have lost them.
mcccmar May 30, 2012 at 12:58 pm
agreed Tony
mcccmar May 30, 2012 at 05:07 pm
agreed brian
mcccmar May 30, 2012 at 05:11 pm
heres an idea - lets knock down the building that houses Charlies Cleaners on 9w- the adjacent car lots, and the miscellaneous adjacent buildings on that side of 59 and put up a WALMART SUPERSTORE - that would solve the parking for nyack business to a very large degree. only being HALF funny because I do love Walmart Superstores
Seamus May 30, 2012 at 06:04 pm
I stopped reading lohud.com because of the random rants of HabibHasan...Just sucks the same thing will happen with the patch now.
Kevin Zawacki (Editor) May 30, 2012 at 06:24 pm
Hi Seamus, thanks for the heads up.
Several of HabibHasan comments violate our terms of service and have consequently been removed. If you see spam comments popping up somewhere, don't hesitate to let me know!
mcccmar May 30, 2012 at 07:08 pm
Yeah Seamus whats up with that guy - lol
Alan D. May 30, 2012 at 07:53 pm
Seamus, HabibHasan comments have been removed.
Maria Daggett May 31, 2012 at 03:13 am
The new sidewalks are very silly. Very.
I own a house on upper Main Street which happens to be next to a bar. The number of complaints that I have lodged can fill a bankers box. My tenant has photographed the 4 times there has been a drunken man who has somehow made his way up on my porch. Good Morning SURPRISE!! The urination is awful but you can telephone the police and surprisingly enough, the urine violater has finished and moved on by the time the police arrive. Broken bottles on the lawn in addition to candy wrappers and cigarette butts. I'm not sure what can be done about the bars and the people. Perhaps having paid parking after 11 PM will mean a higher class of libationers? One can only hope.
JP June 4, 2012 at 12:58 am
Sounds to me like the town should not allow bars. Every complaint seems to be against them. What type of value are they bringing to your town?
Steve Erickson September 8, 2012 at 02:25 pm
If Sour Kraut's business is down 30%, I doubt it is due to the parking situation. More likely it is the increasingly inconsistent food quality, uneven service, and remarkly uncomfortable seating. Also, a bit overpriced.
Brian Goudie September 8, 2012 at 08:16 pm
I would like to shop and eat in Nyack more often but almost never do because of the parking situation.
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Lisa Buchman (Editor) June 13, 2013 at 11:09 am
Congratulations to Nyack Boat Club and member Justin Coplan! Would love to see photos of the team inRead More action!
Aerial of United Water's proposed water treatment plant location
Caleb June 13, 2013 at 10:23 pm
Untrue. Perhaps if United Water wasn't sending over 2 million gallons a day from Deforest Lake toRead More they're customers in Bergen County we would not have this shortage. Hydrologists have shown that there is enough water regularly collected in Rockland's reservoirs and aquifers for our current and growing needs. Many of the "facts" that United Water is putting forward are outdated, and are based on they're own mismanagement of our water basin. Lets remember that United Water has repeatedly been removed as a water provider of major cities throughout this country (6+ last time I checked, notably even from Camden NJ) for mismanagement of water resources. I think its a prudent choice to look into a plant that we will be stuck paying for for the next 4 years from a company that has repeatedly lied and provided water with toxin levels high above legal limits to they're customers. Better safe than sorry.
John Taggart June 13, 2013 at 11:59 pm
Rockland has grown to the point that it needs more water. Terminating the flow of a river and takingRead More the water resources away from other communities (stealing what we need) isn't going to happen.
drostan June 19, 2013 at 03:13 pm
A Response to the Response Mr. Michael Pointing, writing on behalf of United Water, opined in theRead More Journal News (June 7) and the Nyack Patch (June 11) that an Issues Conference on the pending desalination project is unnecessary. When it is so greatly to his personal and professional benefit to support this project, how can he expect to be taken seriously? Comments on the "desal" plant have only rarely mentioned that the radioactive tritium, which each day leaks into the Hudson from Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant - just 3 miles upstream from the plant - will end up, in diluted form, in our drinking water. Problem is, although highly diluted, there's no way to filter out tritium since it is chemically identical to water. Worse, there's no known safe exposure level. Like "normal" water, tritium goes into your body as fast as you drink it. Good news: about half of the tritium you do drink is filtered out by the kidneys within about ten days. Bad news: When your kitchen faucet keeps providing you with small amounts of tritium day after day, it tends to keep whatever levels you have in your body elevated. Welcome to your future, Rockland. Say, how about cracking open a nice plastic bottle of Deer Park for mixing up that baby formula? Why does United Water want this project to go forward so quickly as to necessarily preclude a thorough public education process in which all the variables and all the options can be openly discussed? What if one day you decided you don't like UW anymore and you wished the water utility was still owned by the government and not the private sector, because at least that way through your vote, you could democratically elect new people who would shut the plant down (whereas you can never "vote out" a private corporation from owning the pipes that carry your drinking water)? Let's just say arbitrarily that for the first ten years following completion of this more or less irreversible project there was an average of 500 additional picocuries of tritium per liter showing up in drinking water in Rockland County that was not there before. Even the NRC says Indian Point emits tritium into the ground water and presumably into the Hudson as well, since Hudson water is what flows - 24 hours a day - into and out of the power plant, cooling the atomic reaction that creates electrical power). In 1976 the EPA decided (more or less arbitrarily) that 20,000 picocuries of radioactivity would be roughly the "safe" upper limit for human consumption (due to drinking tritium or any other radionuclide). I say "arbitrarily" because I am aware of no one who has actually tried this since then, to see if it really turned out to be safe. Whose insurance policy would make Rockland homeowners whole again if at some future point tritium (or other radionuclide) levels skyrocketed while property values plummeted? Maybe something so terrible could never, ever happen. I certainly hope it couldn't. But why are we residents the guinea pigs, and how come we pay more - not less - for our water just so UW can do more business and, of course, collect more in utility bills? By the way, Fukushima was also never ever supposed to happen. Human health is not something you go back and study all over again once you realize you've lost it. Doesn't Rockland County have enough cancer already? Dan Rostan Nyack